Commercial Compost

Billy345

I often wonder why major farming companies insist on using chemicals fertilizers to try to enrich the soil in the ground that is otherwise dead yet somehow produces the food we eat. Wouldn't it be great if we could turn the hands of time back to the way farming was done at the turn of the Century? The food out of the ground tasted like it was real and not processed! I actually know the answer to my question - it is all to offen simple, $$$ - it is up to us, the consumers to demand and be willing to step up and pay a little more but get a lot more in the quality at the same time. I just read a short article which I found unfortunate:

Over the past several days, multiple food distributors have indicated that they will not accept produce grown in soils amended with compost because they are worried about potential contamination with e. Coli. O157:H7. This reaction is neither logical nor is it supported by science.

No evidence exists that links compost to the recent e. Coli. outbreaks. In fact, a link to compost is contra-indicated in the LA Times, who reported "The most likely sources are water or wild pigs, (emphasis added) according to the report by the California Department of Health Services and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's San Francisco District."

Clearly, lashing out at the composting industry deflects blame for the contamination of the food system, however, it vilifies an industry which is not the source of the e. Coli and does nothing to correct the problem or protect the public.

We know we can do our part in our own back yards but I think we need to help make a stand on comercial farming as well!

Cheers,

Billy



Jeff Schultz
Re: Commercial Compost

One also has to take into consideration, once upon a time there were a lot more farmers out there tillin' the soil. The number has been condensed for economic reasons. From what I have seen around my neck of the woods, crop rotation and fallow schedules are a thing of the past. Heck, with the fertilzer dumped on, they can grow crops in sand with a good irrigation system! It is all about the almighty dollar, plain and simple.

Bear in mind, the government is protecting "us",.....uh...what did I just say....well, thats what I heard, anyway!



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

Sorry Billy 345  We really got off topic,

Industrial farming has no choice but use chemicals.  When one old farmer (average age in Canada is 64) has to look after 1000 acres - I'm probably exaggerating, but not much)  he can not afford to do it any other way.  If all you city folk pitched in your coffee money for a week you could probably buy a farm - with a farmer, and you could go there on the weekend and manage him.

The industry will make up all kinds of rules to discourage pressure to reduce their already meager income.

There is a difference between worker and industry.  McCannes supplies seed potatoes to the serfs that work the fields and buys the finished product back at their price.  If it's a bad year for growing potatoes and crops fail our Agricultural Stabilization Act kicks in and guarantees the farmer the average price of seed over the past 5 years so he can repay McCannes.  Of course if the farmer produces anything that he can make a good $ on, the ASA kicks in again and the Government imports product to keep the price down for the consumer. I'm sure the same thing goes on in the US.

God only knows what they put on their crops in Mexico.  It used to be trucked out as night soil from the cities.  That's the reason you are told to wash all your fruits and vegetables.   There is a greater likelihood of getting samonella poisioning from eggs or chicken.  E coli is something in every stomach and is only a problem when conditions allow it to mutiply beyond a certain level.   It's what shuts down swimming beaches in the summer  -  and that didn't come from compost. 



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

Waste sawdust.   He has a mill, and cut all the  2x6 floorboards in his house built like a barn.  Few other mills in the area.   Don't know.  Haven't been up there for two years.

Should go visit and see how the fireplace worked out,  He has a length of 8 inch drill casing for a chimney running up through two stories.  This pipe is surrounded by a stone well that forms an air channel around the pipe. At the bottom he has a four sided airtight fireplace.

Your problem with leaf pellet production will be the handling of a large volume that has to be reduced to a small volume.  Otherwise there is nothing majic about the process. Get a local U to build one.

Mulcher drops chopped up leaves into open side of pipe in which a piston connected to a crank moves the leaf bits to end of pipe where they are packed as each extra charge of leaf bits gets added until the mass escapes through a plate drilled full of holes. It works like an old hay bailer.

Build one. Have a thosand of them made in China - retire. 



Jeff Schultz
Re: Commercial Compost

Athena,

The pelletizer, for the lack of a better descriptive word, has been in the works for a bit. The problem is size and cost. If I could afford to, I would give these things away. If a community saw it fit to purchase one and individuals "share holders" contributed to the pile and received their dividends in the form of heating pellets to suppliment heating costs with material that was destined for the land fill,...well.. just think.

I am not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I takes me quite awhile to figure things out, a good tap now and again with a hammer brought abrubtly to my forehead lodges things loose, but for some reason I seem to suffer from migraines? Naaugh, all joking aside. Ideally. I would like to get it down to the size of a riding mower with a hopper about a cubic yard, including pulverizer and slurry grinder.



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

I live in town but own some property 45 minutes away, so I have a lot of neighbours.  One of my farm neighbours actually bought up old small machinery for manufacturing wood pellets when a growing business upgraded.  He has built a building and now has the three phase (600 VOLT something or other -I'm really not good with numbers) but has not got operational yet. 

He has been building a house with the plasti-fab stuff and designed his own monster central fireplace. While it was under construction I worked there in shirt sleeves when no fire had  been on for the weekend and the temp outside was -20C.

No,-  frade not - I don't watch very much TV - can't bear to watch all the stupid crooks and stupid CSI scripts.  I can not believe that when you get a finger print off a door knob you get one print and only one print.

Anyway, - that's why I know a little about pellets, and other than that, I no nuting. - but willing to learn.

Scrubbers for creosote? What else? Those stoves burn two pellets at a time in a firebox the size of an ashtray.  Can we not just modify the burn, or slow the exhaust down until the whole mess condenses in the pipe?  It does after all use a powered intake and very slow exhaust flow. 

Sorry, I really don't know what I'm talking about, - ever. 

 



Jeff Schultz
Re: Commercial Compost

No, Good Neighbors was a show made in the late seventies I believe. About a couple who decided to get away from corporate mainstream and live off the land. They lived in the city and tried the subsistance lifestyle amongst their neighbors.

I have looked at pellet presses and extruders in the past. Beans n rice, for what they want for those hunks of machinery I could buy a small island in the Carribean. As far as the scrubber is concerned. Ideally, I would like to see or develop a "small" unit that people in residential areas can use detritus and woody matter, stuff it in the Play Do fun machine and take it to the house, toss it in their masonry heater and not worry about the neighbors compaining about the smell or smoke. You are right about the burn rate and control. I guess I was raised to be courtious and not ruffle anyones feathers, unless....... I feel like ruffllin' 'em, then generally its just for fun. I know, I'm a twisted sociopathe, but what the hey, gotta get my kicks from somewhere, right?

By the way, what is the neighbor using for material? And what process?



Jeff Schultz
Re: Commercial Compost

You're killin' me. I almost peed my pants! OK I can hardly type!!!!!



ctyankee
Re: Commercial Compost

Oh My!

  I think you guys are serious about *worms*... Ya know, I was born & raised in Fairfield county, CT... In *my* world, meat comes from the supermarket... do ya' follow what I'm sayin' ?

  Short of the total collapse of civilization... I (aye-aye-aye) I don't think I would be able to...  eat worms...

  Don't get me wrong, when I used to ride, I swallowed my fair share of bugs...  I love sushi too, I'm even what you'd call adventurous in the kitchen... but we're talkin' worms here???

  Oats & corn meal... Hmmm sounds reasonable... believable even... Come on, admit it, you guys are teasin' me! Right?  RIGHT???



Jeff Schultz
Re: Commercial Compost

Funny you mentioned the UK. Did you ever see Good Neighbors? Hilarious.

Leaf matter particularily oak leaves contain lignin, a natural glue. I am in the middle or should I say second half of manipulating leaf and wood matter into usable wood pellets. What did somebody beat me to the punch? If so, fill me in, I want to hear about it, especially if they built a "scrubber" for residential use.

My favorite cleansing and fattening medium for crawlers is corn meal. Tossed in a batch of Jambalaya and you have yourself one heck of a culinary treat.



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

Vaugely.  -  but by co-incidence my mother loaned me one CD the last time I visited. -  The first season of "My Family".  probably recycled jokes.



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

Kathleen Rolinson it's all about me, is a worm composter.



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

I visited my mum to-day and asked how her worms were.

She lifted the table cloth and top off a small coffee table and viola! It was actually the top of a large plastic  barrel of earth.   I couldn't even see any worms.

She just throws in kitchen waste and moves some dirt, or adds a scoop or two from a flower pot, to cover it up.  

In U.K. the farms are tiny little things, so a lot of the farming is done in miniature. Harvesting hay is even a problem with perpetual wet weather, so you bring the hay in green and wet and dry it in a dehydrator before you press it into little cubes.  Then you handle the stuff with a loader and a dump truck.

Depending whether you are making food for cows, horses, rabbits or chickens, you choose a machine that makes the right sized bites, and add appropriate additives, vitamines, herbs and spices.  You can buy vegetarian pet food - same stuff.

I am sure you would be shocked to learn what some people pay to  feed their horses. 

Supply a local farmer and get paid in beef.

30 years ago when I worked for Aggravation Canada they were experimenting with feeding cows newspaper.  Cows can turn it into milk - and that was back in the days when newsprint ink was made from oil. 

And IF you ever have to eat worms - let them crawl around in a bucket of oatmeal for a day.  You'll think it's haggis or McD's. 

In high school we tried all types of dog biscuits and fried and chocholate covered insects.  If you didn't offer something special at the parties no one would come.  I'm sure no one died from it and I can not remember anyone even being sick.  Cook anything right....

These red worms do multiply so you will have to find a lizard farmer or fish farm to eat up your surplus.

The fuel for pellet stoves is made from sawdust that is pulverized in a hammer mill and then extruded into little pellets.   I bet you could use your animal food pellet maker (if you had one) to make stove fuel from your leaves.  -  I bet your grass pellets would burn pretty good too.

 



athena
Re: Commercial Compost

People with only one arm do better with vermiculture. 

My mother has a bucket of worms in her small apartment and she is a vegetarian, so she has a lot of kitchen waste.

The worms are small redworms that can tolerate the higher temperatures and do an excellent job.  Easy to feed, quiet, don't need to be exercised and if you're short of food you can feed them newspaper. 

If you're really short of food I suppose you could fry up the worms.

As for cutting that much grass.  Have you thought about growing quality clover or somesuch and buying a pellet food extruder?  That sounds like a business to me.

Oak leaves should be formed into a low pile and allowed to sit over winter.  In the spring the acorns gathered with the leaves will germinate and produce lovely little seedlings.  It's a natural process I guess. Works well with nut trees too.



ctyankee
Re: Commercial Compost

I remember the rumors 30 years ago that McD was using worm meat in the burgers... Oh the economic absurdity!  All that aside, what do I do with the worms?

I've heard of clover honey, but clover pellets?  Is that some type of organo-healthy food-fad? ;-)  I don't have any pets that would consider ruminating on the pellets, and the worms just... well...

Oak leave are naturally in a "low-pile" *carpet* that is... about 6'' deep.  The high piles are 7' tall and about 15' in diameter  What I like to call "Extreme Norman Rockwell"...  Four piles in the front, 5 in the back... ~15-20% maple & sassafras, and some pine needles too...

When I was a kid we used to burn them... Oh the memories of the smell brings me back... I miss that!  Can't do that anymore.



ctyankee
Re: Commercial Compost

Composting is an interesting process, but some folks believe it is a universal dispose-all.  It's not.

1) You should never compost anything you wouldn't have put in your mouth or eaten when it was fresh. 2) Never put meat in the compost. 3) Composting is an aerobic process.

Violating these basic rules is how E. Coli gets into the compost.

---

I've got one of those big compost tumblers.  It's either too big or too small. 

We don't produce enough kitchen scraps, I can't garden, and it's too small to handle even a tiny fraction of the yard waste (if I was collecting yard waste... it used to be ~500 cu ft of grass clippings).  We probably get >1000 cu ft of fall leaves and twigs.  Twigs & branches don't compost.

Does anybody share my situation?  Do you have any advice?  I'm also looking for a kitchen solution that doesn't smell up the house between trips to the composter.  The tumbler's got 2 clasps and it's a real challenge to open & close with one arm, so a better solution is being sought.  Something that I can do without offending the olfactory sensibilities of the house, or bothering the missus Smiling