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Hybrid Batteries

Naida
Naida's picture

I just purchased a Toyota Prius and had a few questions from battery experts out there. I understand that the cost of the hybrid's batteries exceeds what we would all save from using a gasoline vehicle and purchasing gasoline. Don't get me wrong, I also drive my Prius for the health of our environment, but was wondering if this was true. Is our battery technology getting better to where this cost comparison will no longer be a factor?

Naida

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Submitted by Naida on Wed, 04/04/2007 - 19:02.

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: Hybrid Batteries

good insight Sehija , you can always trade up later if you can get one.
Toyota may also a battery change out some day if the new lithium batteries do as well as expected and are in plentiful supply. It might take a year or 2.
You could also get the plug-in hybrid option being offered by a few companies. That adds a new higher density battery packs and a plug. Then you could get 100-200 mpg.
I'd buy now and start saving the world. You can always move up as the options become available.
Also add renewable energy to your home since a house can generate as much pollution as a vehicle. Solar and wind are great and clean and don't use water like coal and nuke do.

solar stacks

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solar stacks


Sat, 06/09/2007 - 09:35

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: Hybrid Batteries

Hybrid Warrenties - An important item I forgot to add.
All hybrid in the US come with a mandated 8 year 100,000 mile warrenty on the batteries and electronics.

If you are lucky enought to live in a smart state that adopted the clean car rules from California like 11 states have you will get a 10 year 150,000 mile battery and electronics warrenty on all hybrids.
That takes the worry out of any hybrid.

Just as important Toyota reports that they have very very few battery warrenty issues. Many have gone over 200K and some over 300K miles.

The new safer more powerful non toxic lithium batteries promise to be just as good maybe better. Because nickel cost is rising the new lithium may even be less expensive.
The 08 Prius with Toyota made lithium batteries was tests and gets 90 mpg. That would be worth a lot to me.
Some pure battery electrics are looking at providing a 100,00 mile warrenty and maybe even 200K. Watch Phoenix motorcars and Miles automotive.

solar stacks

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solar stacks


Tue, 06/12/2007 - 21:02

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: Hybrid Batteries-Lithium is best

The new lithium batteries are a big jump ahead. They have more power than the currently used NiMH, they are lighter and less toxic. In fact the EPA shows they are safe to just throw in the trash.
One of the best things about lithium batteries is you can charge and discharge more energy out of them. For instance a NiMH uses about 35% of it energy and a lithium ion battery can use 70%. That more than double the usable energy.
A very good information list is on the www.hybrids-plus.com website. They also make a plug in hybrid option for the Prius to give it over 100 mpg. They tell about ultra capcitors and other choices too. Here are some of their facts=

Are the batteries safe for the environment?
Yes. Lithium Ion batteries contain no heavy metals, no acids. They may be disposed safely and legally in a landfill. But why dispose of them when they can be recycled? These batteries contain materials that are worth recycling.

Why don't you use NiMH batteries? They're cheaper!
Because they weight twice as much and are twice as big as LiIon cells (for a given amount of energy storage). Because they heat up more, requiring careful cooling. Because you can only use part of the energy they store (their life would be much shorter if charged and discharged completely).

11.2  Why don't you use Ultra Capacitors? They last forever!
Because, for a given amount of energy storage, Ultra Capacitors are 20 times as big as LiIon cells, and they cost 10 times as much. reference

solar stacks

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solar stacks


Fri, 05/25/2007 - 05:56

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: Hybrid Batteries

Just to let you know the Prius sold over 60,000 in 1 year so the incentive was reduced, dumb laws. But they still are the best hybird and best resale value. No other hybrid sold this many to hit the limit. That tells you a lot.
Not all hybrids are good. Some like the Honda Accord just give you more power. The mpg is about the same as the regular model. Only a light full hybrid like the Toyota Prius can so so clean and higher mpg.

solar stacks

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solar stacks


Tue, 06/12/2007 - 20:52

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: Hybrid Batteries

someday the great NiMH batteries now used in hybrids can be replaced with better lithium. The old NiMH pack in a prius cost about 3K and lasts 300,000 miles. The new lithium are more powerful, have a safer design and will last just as long. They are also none polluting so you could dump them in the trash, but who would do that.

The 2008 prius will be the first with lithium and get 90 mpg and be the same price. Plug-in hybrids are also coming that get over 100 mpg. The more we buy the lower the prices will be just like PCs and cell phones.

All batteries are much better than gas from oil !

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solar stacks


Wed, 05/23/2007 - 16:59

Joseph
Joseph's picture
Re: Hybrid Batteries

Wow, I'm surprised I didn't hear about the 2008 being lithium and getting 90 mpg. I did hear about the proposed 2009 and that estimates put it at about 100 mpg. I understand that in Japan the Honda Insight currently gets around 102 mpg. At this rate it appears that it may be very much a possibility to reduce our dependence on oil very significantly over the next few years. This is great news.

- Joseph


Fri, 05/25/2007 - 11:52

Kona
Re: Hybrid Batteries

Here I was all set to buy a hybrid and now I have to consider waiting...HMMMM
For me a new car is a big purchase and I want to do my part but the idea of getting 90MPH is a nice thought! Should I just conserve and try to drive less in my old beater of a car and buy a 08 or buy one now - what would you all do???

I need some insight - HELP!

Thanks,

Kona


Wed, 05/23/2007 - 17:55

Sehija
Cost of a Hybrid

That's a good question Naida, I was wondering the same until I checked into it. I found that on cnn.com that they say that now is the best time to buy a hybrid. Previous to now incentives have been rather low and pricing for vehicles was high because of supply and demand. Now since there's much greater supply you can get a good deal, particularly on a Prius, and with the tax incentives that are still in effect the cost of the vehicle is now, for the first time since release, on the positive financial side for the buyer. The cost of the technology and batteries and major demand with short supply kept things just the opposite until now. So, buy your Prius now while the incentives are still in existence and you'll do well.


Sat, 04/07/2007 - 16:26