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Fool cells

jstack6
jstack6's picture

A hydrogen fuel cell is really a very expensive way to make an electric vehicle. The PEM Proton Exchange Membrain fuel cell cost about 1 million dollars. It only can use very pure hydrogen or it will fail.
You have to make hydrogen or split water to relase H2 and it takes 4 times as much energy as making electricity directly. You also have to sore it and compress it.
In cold weather a fuel cell takes a while to warm up and start working so they use battery electric to do that. When you go to stop hydrogen can't use regenerative braking and store the energy. So they use battery electric or ultra capacitors to capture that energy too.
New batteries like the altairnano lithium can charge up in 10 minutes refueling times aren't much better in a fuel cell. What would be the advantage of a fuel cell ? Well thay make fill some areas of use and sti=orage but for me I'll take the advanced battery EV or plug-in hybrid now.

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solar stacks


Submitted by jstack6 on Fri, 05/25/2007 - 20:19.

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: Fool cells-fuel Cell

technology is always more than we can learn in 2 minutes. We have to use my EAR approch.

First Educate yourself with all the information you can find and ask others.

Next A be aware that some don't tell the whole story so watch and look at results, be aware.

Last make a Resonable Response. Like with solar maybe buy some small lights or solar toys. Then get quotes on a home system and fianlly if you really believe it will make the world better and or save you money do the right things you can live with buy a system of wait and check again.

 

solar stacks

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solar stacks


Tue, 03/04/2008 - 14:32

Hayden
Re: Fool cells

That is very interesting!  I'm so curious as to what REALLY drives this technology or what is REALLY holding it back - I can't help but be skeptical and think there is a bit of conspiracy all fueled and funded by the oil companies.  I've also read a few articles that try to discredit Bio-Fuels - If done properly, they burn clean and use recycled or byproducts not intended for human consumption - I worry that the general public is susceptible to being spoon feed misinformation and lead to believe information that would steer us from believing that there are sustainable alternatives or that they're beyond the reach of Joe American's budget - For that matter - what is the point to pursue the fuel cell technology if it is going to be so expensive - sure it will come down at some point - but $1M - give me a break -As always solar stacks - you guys have great info and contribute so much to FTP!Cheers,HaydenPS – to my detractors that like to find my spelling errors – I think this one should be error free – It’s not that I can’t spell – but I’m more interested in just sharing my thoughts in an environment which feels friendly and in line with how I think – still, if spelling means a lot to you –knock your selves out and let me know if I made some errors again here Smiling

 


Tue, 02/12/2008 - 14:15

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re:Fuel(Fool) cells

Honda ,who stopped making their EVplus all electric vehicles now lease a FUEL CELL vehicle, in California only, for 600 a month. The hydrogen comes from 96% fossil fuels and they will take the leased vehicle back someday and crush it.

  Gee that sounds green. They recycle your used car and recycle their company on green cash from you. 

Honda fcx.  Range 100 miles, not good in cold weather. crushed after use. fuel cell 1 million dollars.

Honda EVplus, 150 mile range, fuel at any electric socket. Batteries last 100K plus miles. crushed after use. est cost if you could buy it, $32,000.

the solar stacks

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solar stacks


Mon, 02/11/2008 - 21:44

llazyiest
Re:Fuel(Fool) cells

According to honda the range is 270 miles.

The plan is also that homes would have fueling centers, already designed.

Too bad we had to blow all that dough on bombs. Coulda changed built the infrastructure/ converted gas stations to hydrogen much cheaper and we'd be set.

96% fossil fuels.. I'm fine with using our coal instead of middle east oil.  The new plants are low emmission, liquifaction turns coal into bio fuels, creates electricity  and creates hydrogen to power cars. Carbon is stored in the earth or used to push more oil out of the ground. I'm thinkin it's way better than using up farmland to power industry and vehicles instead of feeding us.

 

 


Wed, 05/07/2008 - 01:18

ctyankee
Re:Fuel(Fool) cells

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Fuel Cells are great for orbiting spacecraft; Apollo 13 excepted.

But on the ground they are just another expensive stationary 'engine'.

We might be able to adapt out public transportation fleets, and routed trucks to H2 FC's but we'd need to derive the energy from 100% clean sources like distributed concentrating solar-thermal electric to make it viable.  It'll take 2 acres of panels to capture the energy to move each city bus each day.

Once the systems are in place the systems would last 20 years with no more O&M than the buses currently require, and *zero* fuel costs for the duration.  Perhaps a city planner would like to take a closer look at what we've got to say...

The Light is Green! 


Wed, 05/07/2008 - 08:27

jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: FUEL CELLS=Fool cells

a good example of how csotly and impratical fuel cells are in the Honda FCX hydrogen vehicle. It costs about 1 millioj dollars and can go about 100 miles when full of hydrogen if you can find it.

This used to be the Honda EVplus with MiMH batteries that sold for #30,000 and went about 100 miles on a charge. The batteries were good for 100,000 milese or more. Honda recalled and crushed those but now makes the fuel cell EV that uses the same pklatform and electric motor.

In summary you can now pay 930,000 more for the same vehicle.
You can't charge it at home.
You can't find hydrogen for it.
You have to use 3 times the electric energy to make the hydrogen and compress it.
You lose !

the solar stacks

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solar stacks


Fri, 06/29/2007 - 19:37